Prochain patch pour les PzC prévu

[Starlancer]

Comme personne n'en a parlé ici, d'après les derniers sondages fait sur le forum américain par Glenn Saunders c'est au tour de Korsun 44 d'avoir son patch bientôt. Donc rien encore pour Kharkhov 42 ou Normandy 44. J'en connais qui vont être déçu , en plus j'en fais partie :( Apparement Korsun 44 a beaucoup d'adeptes Outre-Atlantique

[Laurent]

C'est vrai que c'est dommage.

D'ailleurs j'ai jamais réussi à accrocher à Korsun '44. J'espère bien pouvoir un jour entamer une nouvelle partie en multi sur ce jeu pour voir si j'aime si peu que ça.

[Tyrex]

bon ben j'ai le temsp de finir Skachok les mains en haut du guidon donc s'il n'y a pas de patch prevu

[RickyB]

J'essayerai d'obtenir Kharkov sur la liste après K'44.

Rick

[Laurent]

Salut Rick, tu as sûrement vu le projet de Tyrex à propos de Kharkov '43.
Ca a commencé là :
<a href='http://www.strataegis.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1313' target='_blank'>Topic de Tyrex sur le forum PC4War</a>


Il y en a un petit bout là :
<a href='http://campaigns-france.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=43' target='_blank'>La suite sur Campaigns-France</a>


Ca promet d'être très intéressant comme scénario ! ;)

[RickyB]

Salut Laurent. J'ai eu connaissance du projet à PC4WAR, mais pas des détails ici.

I am looking forward to seeing the scenario, after all the work put into it. And the OOB listed here is great! I have not read all of the thread at PC4WAR, as my French is not so good that I easily follow everything and I start getting a headache after too much. I can see that a number of people contributed to the information in the scenario. Now if John Tiller will provide a slightly larger map to allow all of Star and Gallop to be shown, it will be perfect. He told Marquo he might do that, but that has been over a year. That is why Manstein Strikes Back that I did starts where it does, rather than earlier.

Merci et excusez-moi pour l'anglais.

[Micke]

Its fine Ricky we can follow in english and thanks to write in french. If you had a contact with John there is also somethingto ask him which is quite easily to do. It's to merge the 2 maps of Kursk and Kharkov. There is a overlap between the 2 maps of 20 to 30 km ( south of koursk map and north of Kharkov map ). The result would be a very big map with the possibility to design new scenarios as Ukrain 43 with the 4th battle of Kharkov just after Kursk battle in August 1943.

[Laurent]

Peut-être que Tyrex pourrait envoyer son ébauche de scénario à Rick... Si ça pouvait pousser JT à agrandir la map. ;)

[RickyB]

Ok, j'essayerai mais je devrai travailler avec Glenn.

[Tyrex]

Well I'm not sure my scenario is as astonishing as said. It's just a rewriting of Marquo's one after all.
And the first tests proved it to be rather deadly for anyone.
Over and above many things are quite not in the line of HPS. Values have been quite modified. For example 24 76mm Russian gun will do more damage than a 500men bataillon. And a german compagny of 160 men has more killing power than a russian bataillon.
And there's a real real big problem. The scenario has been created to be used with optionnal rules. It would not realy work with the standart ones. It's a real french point of view of what the game should be. I'm quite sure no anglosaxons players will be pleased with this vision.
Another fact wich can annoyed non-french player is the terms used in the scenario. No more infantry or armor or artillery. There's in place some Infanterie, Streslnyi, Panzer, Tankiye, Artillerie or Minyomotov. And I spare you with Hungarian or Italian ones. Theres no more Mobile Group Popov or Army Group South but a "Povidjanaya Grioupa Popov" and a "ArmeeGruppe Süd"
As many reasons which strongly make me reluctant to contact HPS to speak of my project (and also a real shyness)

However a extension of the card should be a great thing for sure. But not to the north as said Michel (well at least for me). It should better be extended to the south to Stalino and Zoporoz'hyie. It should also be extended to the east as far as the Aydar river and the Mius. Such extension is about 40 kms to south and 50 to the East. With such a map operations Skachok and Zvesdia (Gallop and Star in russian as I named my project) will came to great deal.
But a new patch will be needed to. Kharkov don't bear deception units and strategic options. Well such options will add a great deal of flexibility and interest. And the deception units can brought to live the newly born Razvedshiki (ancestors of Spetnatz) and the insurrection wich occurs in Kharkov in March.

But I'm rather dreaming there. Such patches will probably never been done

[RickyB]

Tyrex, I don't think the reaction will be as tough by us AngloSaxons as you believe. By some it might, but definitely not all. Regarding naming the units, if you look at the OOB for the similar scenario that I put together, I tried to use German terms for the units, and some of the HPS games do that also. I sure didn't do that for the Italian, Hungarian or Soviet units, but would be interested in seeing them and I think I would like it.

As to ratings and optional rules, they all go together, and as long as the results work right, then that sounds good too. The only thing I have against optional fire rules when the game values are designed for them is that it leads to incorrect results. I played a game of Kharkov 42 with optional fire rules and the Soviet player had to quit after a short time as almost all his attacking forces were disrupted without any gains. But if the unit ratings were different, as you say you did, then it could work better.

Regarding deception units, Kharkov can use them now, no patch needed. If you need help adding them, let me know, but the game can handle the PDT changes for it and the OOB editor can set units as deception units. I even believe strategy options can be used in the game now, although they would have to be added using the scenario editor from a newer version. Either way, Kharkov will get updated and have all this added in. I will be very happy to help you do any of this - I can even test the strategy options soon (not tonight, too many other things to do but soon).

Let me know.

Rick

[RickyB]

Actually, I just added in some strategies successfully, but the Kharkov game would not open it correctly. So it appears that the scenario can be setup now but not used with strategies in place.

Rick

[Tyrex]

I've tried to implement deception units. In fact in the OoB Ravzvedchiki and partisan already existed.
But when I tried to put valors on the PDT nothing appears at all. It was difficult to deploy them. But the worst was they do nothing at all. I put them near supply moving...and nothing happens. 20 germans units moved nearby and still they do nothing.
When I see the valors the deception values are all set to 0 in place of 15 for efficiency or 0 in place of 5 for range.
This is why I never included them in my pre beta version. If you have any ideas of implementing them correctly I take them. It will add another dimension to this fight and will give a role to play to the Cosack's troops in the german camp. After all anti-partisan warfare was their attributes and not really front operations.

For testing ok no problem I'm adding you to my list in place of Pandapowaa. I'm for now waiting for Nafziger's book upon Soviet Armored Forces. When I've got them I'll see if I can improve a bit the Tankiye Korpious on my OoB and then I'll finish implementing all reinforcements of February and March

Pour les anglophobes en fait j'attends les bouquins de Nafziger sur les corps blindes. Une fois que je les ais je regarde ce que je peux en tirer pour ameliorer l'OoB. Apres je m'attaque à tout les renforts de Fevrier (depuis le 6) jusqu'a la fin de la bataille

[RickyB]

I can work on a test of deception units, Tyrex. Or please send me a copy of your scenario, OOB and PDT files and I will work with them. If you did not adjust the values in the OOB for deception settings, then they are 0 and the result would be exactly what you got for results. But I will do something tonight, with either your files or a test that I setup.

For testing, you will have to let me know what you want. Thank you for bringing it up. I will be very eager to help with what I can do, but time over the next month or so will be short for me. So whatever I can do, but please let me know what it is you want there and I will let you know what I can do for now.

I did not know that Nafziger had OOB books on the Soviet side. His German OOB books are good, although with a few mistakes or contradictory listings. I used a book for the Soviets, by Poirier, Robert G. and Conner, Albert Z., "The Red Army Order of Battle in the Great Patriotic War", Presidio Press, Novato, CA, 1985. It is a good source of divisional structure and history, and some higher unit information. If I see your OOB, I can see if it will fill any holes or anything, if that sounds okay to you.

Thank you, Tyrex.

Rick

[Tyrex]

I'm rather busy this week end. So I'll send you more information on Monday (perhaps Sunday but I'm quite no sure)

[RickyB]

I will be away from home Sunday to Wednesday, so I will put together a test of the deception units in Kharkov with a set of test files to see how it works out.

Rick

[Tyrex]

No problem for me waiting for the end of next week. I'm not on the hurry since I've half the reinforcement to put on the .scn file.
Even I do it quickly deception units can appear in a beta bis version.

[Tyrex]

By the way Rick I don't have any Email adress to send you the OoB, Pdt et scn files

[RickyB]

Sorry, it is rbancroft@att.net.

[Tyrex]

Send it to you as soon as possible. Beware the scenario file is an incomplete one. The reinforcements are incomplete
OoB file is also incomplete for some russian formations. It's normal. I've started working on it not knowing that some units didn't engaged themselves during the fight. So when I build up my Oob I don't fill the blanks of those formations

[Micke]

Ci joint un lien d'un concepteur américain Jison qui est en train de revoir complétement le design de Panzer Campaigns.
Pour aller y jeter un coup d'oeil:
<a href='http://user.tninet.se/~wnn522v/' target='_blank'>http://user.tninet.se/~wnn522v/</a>
Ca parait pas mal du tout non ?

[Tortue Agile]

ca fait plus moderne...
Entre les changements pour la carte, les unites etc... ca rend pas mal... Faudra voir quand ca sera fini :)

[Laurent]

Ben moi, je n'aime pas du tout. <_< Tout le monde se casse le c*** à essayer de rendre le jeu plus beau et là on a un mod qui le rend encore plus moche (et je pèse mes mots).
Bien sûr ce n'est que mon avis et je le partage. B)


J'avoue tout de même que le côté "simplifié" fait très design Linux...
C'est bien le design Linux, ça fait pas Microsoft et ça donne l'impression d'avoir une personnalité parce qu'on fait pas comme tout le monde. Ou bien design "je me la pète parce que je suis un stratège des bois qui bosse dans un état-major". Ou encore design "j'ai 20 ans de wargame et je me crois obligé d'ajouter des graphismes à la Azure Wish par nostalgie"
Bref, tout ce que je ne suis pas. ;)

Si non je dois être idiot car je n'ai pas compris l'utilité de ce mod amochissant... :(
Que Dieu ait pitié de moi. :ph34r:



Toute mes confuses pour cet avis tranché, mais j'ai pas pu m'empêcher. <_<

[Tortue Agile]

C'est bien que ca soit ton avis et que tu le partages... :P

Comme quoi les gouts sont un peu partout...

Moi ce qui m'a plu c'est les icones des unites d'infanterie... c'est plus petit ca me rappelait les Battleground de talonsoft.... c'est vrai que l'interface semble "moderne"... Mais bon comme personne n'est oblige de l'installer :)

Bon j'avoue qu'en regardant de plus pres je suis pas fan des symboliques pour les terrains... au debut les forets me semblaient sympa mais le reste fait trop moderne...

[PREVOT]

Effectivement, avis mitigé...mais certains changements sont à voir de plus près..
Quoique ce qu'il y a de bien avec tous ces mods c'est que chacun prend ce qu'il préfère...afin de rendre son écran le plus à son goût.
Espérons que ce joeur laissera toute la souplesse dans l'installation de ses mods...mais peut il faire autrement...? ;)

[Pretator]

Globalement c'est pas mal . Je trouve qu'au niveau de la carte c'est même plutôt mieux , au niveau des unités c'est différent mais ça n'apporte pas un plus . C'est beaucoup une question de feeling ces choses la .

[Starlancer]

Question de goût encore une fois comme tous les mods. J'adore ses counters et son mod rail et son blankboxH . (le rail fait très carte état-major et cela me plait beaucoup).
Rien à redire question soin du travail, c'est même excellent question netteté, néanmoins je ne prendrai que ce que j'ai adoré.
N'empêche il a dû passer un nombre d'heure incalculable pour faire tout cela et là chapeau B)

[Tyrex]

[efelle]